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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/20/2012 5:06:40 AM

khmark7

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Up early drinking coffee and getting ready for work. Looking out across the eastern skyline and i'm observing just how different a location the sun is rising now than it was a few months ago. This time of year it's rising up over two huge oak trees which are behind my property, giving up little light into my yard even at 7am. In a few hours it will be moving behind the white pine and maple on the SE back corner and stay there until around 1pm. Most of my grapes will be getting full sun by 9:30....but others wait until 1pm and then have full sun until about 6pm. Hoping to trim the back maple and open up more sunlight from noon onwards for a few grapes, and other plants. The grapes on my side yard are getting about 6-7 hours of full sun, while those on the fence line (opposite side of the house) are getting intermittent sun over about 8 hours. The last few grapes under the maple are getting maybe 4-5 hours.....so hence the maple trim operation. In a few years i can see myself moving to a house with a real lawn so this isn't such an issue.....

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Post #: 91

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/20/2012 5:49:38 PM

champagneinhand

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One of the problems with late ripening fruit around here, is how quickly the sun sits lower in the Southern sky, therefore not giving enough Sun in the months past September.

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Post #: 92

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/21/2012 4:26:07 PM

khmark7

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Have contracted a local tree service to trim 3 trees in my yard, which in addition to increasing sunlight on my grapes and fruit trees, will also hopefully keep all the junk from the maple trees out of my gutters!!

My last few grapes are in route from the nursery....and my Frontenac grape ordered from somewhere else is currently in limbo....

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Post #: 93

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/21/2012 4:33:31 PM

champagneinhand

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I was out in the grapes today and things are shooting everywhere like gangbusters. I broke up a fight between a Chardonnay and Fronteac Vine. I really should have taken a picture, and will next time. The Fronteac grape vines have many little feelers that shoot out so it can club and will try and take on the older Chardonnay vines. It is quite funny to see, but since I have dense planting, this is not uncommon, which is why I check on the most days. This weekend I will start doing some canopy maintenance as thing are under full court press finally. The PN vine that I think is dead every year has seemed to resurrect itself for the 5th year, but I doubt anything will come of it. I actually may be able to make some wine if things continue this way. Less than a week ago, we had lows in the mid 30's and now we are steadily in the mid to high 80's. I've never sen a real Spring here last longer than 2 weeks. I miss that, but you just have to cowboy up.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/23/2012 5:00:16 AM

khmark7

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Decided to order a last minute Frontenac Gris to plant where i was going to grow my Frontenac Rouge....that never showed up. Now that i shelled out $20 for the new plant + shipping i'm sure the other one will arrive unannounced. The long growing season required for that variety is what concerns me, so i'm growing it right next to the house under my roof overhang to protect it against late season frost.

Should receive my other grapes today via FedEx.

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Post #: 95

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/23/2012 5:11:15 PM

champagneinhand

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I still don't know if it is Fronteac or Frontenac, the latter being a French name sounds correct, but the species was crossbred genetically at Cornell, so I have always seen it as Fronteac Gris. I decided that after laying down the pelletized lime yesterday, that I would start the thinning of the grape clusters, because those vines are just very over confident after damn near being killed of by frost. The Japanese beetles haven't even begun there version of Pearl Harbor yet, but most of the vines look pretty good. Take a gander at all the clusters I had to remove and May isn't even over. These berries were actually tripling in size from when they first appeared, so I needed to make sure the remaining clusters are viable. I gotta give the vines credit for effort as I didn't have this many surviving clusters last year. There may be a chance at a gallon of dessert wine after all. Need more effort from the badly beat up PG's. Take a gander.

The smaller clusters are from the Chardonnay, and the longer clusters from the FG. If I only could have brought them all to maturity, with all the flavor into these grapes, I would have been a very happy man.

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Post #: 96

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/23/2012 6:38:20 PM

khmark7

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Very impressive CIH. No fruit for me this year, although my apple trees might have a few apples if i'm lucky.

Planted 4 vines today and expect temps in the mid 80's for the next week, so hopefully everything does well. Just waiting for my trees to get trimmed to help with additional sunlight. The good news is that my Seyval Blanc survived it's transplant and will hopefully survive next winter. Curious to see how that, my Vidal Blanc and Cabernet Sauvignon do this summer and following winter.....expectations are low.

Pretty sure my neighbors think i'm insane....

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Post #: 97

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/23/2012 7:26:10 PM

jrockman

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So my two partners in the WA Custom Crush are both growing their own vines; what are the odds of that?

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Post #: 98

RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/23/2012 8:47:23 PM

champagneinhand

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Syrah doesn't do well in cold climates and Rasa wines are great. I'm having serious doubts about the Napa barrel project. Wish there was a way to gracefully exit that plan. First Howell Mtn, which I like, the To Kalon was ruled out and it turns out to be the same stuff as last years, and I haven't bought any '09 Napa. Oh well, I guess those are the breaks.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/24/2012 8:08:21 PM

khmark7

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Very warm, but dry here in Chicago. With all my new plantings i've been watering about every other day. Still waiting for my trees to get trimmed, as i think that extra sunlight will help with the growth of certain vines (depending on where they are located). Training a few grapes onto the wires....but mostly just waiting for my grapes to bud and get established this year.

Planted two Bluebell grapes at my mother's today, they are similiar to Concord. Will be putting up a wire trellis there soon.... With all the deer, birds and racoons around her yard it would take the US Marines to protect the grapes come harvest time.....but it's still fun.

How long till bloom in your area CIH?

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/24/2012 9:54:00 PM

champagneinhand

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Concords and the like need a huge leaf to fruit ratio. The critters usually have other treats readily available, like garbage and such. I went through and plucked more fruit and will have to use some wire to lock down some vine placement. Only use loose wire that holds brown covered shoots, rather than new green ones or you will lose them. Things are growing like crazy other than the PG, which is moving along slowly. It seems that every day I pick out new weeds that have miraculously taken root over a one night period in the gravel at spread. I hate the water thieves. I am looking forward to some good fruit depending on the insanity of the coming weather.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/25/2012 5:42:53 PM

khmark7

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I spoke too soon about not having any fruit. It would seem that the plants i received from Double A are kicking out fruit clusters along with the shoots.....which was a welcome surprise.

As predicted my Frontenac Rouge showed up unannounced.....so i'm scrambling to find a spot for my Frontenac Gris.....but i think i have a solution. Several minutes later.....

Neighbors pulled up around dinnertime and spot me outside tending to the vines and such....
Neighbors: "Uh....so how tall again are those fruit trees gonna be?"
Me: "They're dwarf trees.....and i will be pruning them back so don't worry."
Neighbors: "OK".....looking rather worried and not exactly trusting......"is the fruit edible?"
Me: "Yeah....that's the point. I'm growing some grapes and those fruit trees so i get some fruit. Might as well do something with the yard besides grow weeds."

If my yard could be 100% garden i would be perfectly happy.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/27/2012 1:47:15 PM

khmark7

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Hot as Hades here....97F....and it's only May. Watering almost every day....

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/27/2012 9:32:44 PM

champagneinhand

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My yard could be bigger as well, but I choose a smaller lot until I figured out how my health was going to be. I will post a few clips from my backyard. I have 3 dwarfs apple trees, so I know some neighbors always have concerns. The neighborhood builder asked me once if grapes needed that much of a purchase and I replied; "whatever they need I'll give them." There are a few picts of the Frontenac Gris and a small Pinot Gris, which produced one cluster last year, but is now 3 times the size, but still a slow growing vine. The others are all having some canopy management soon, and I have to keep thinning the fruit almost every other day. Also included are my raspberries and a shot of the blossoming flowers of the blackberry vines in the small briar patch behind the house.
Thought you would like the update, and congrats on some fruit to try, which will only hook you in farther.

View of the tiny yard and the fighting grape varietals, next is one of the PG's and briar raspberries.

Lastly the crazy raspberries, which I'm trying to confine to a smaller area than they wish.

This place is pretty great during the warm months and this weekend had great weather.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/29/2012 2:48:45 PM

khmark7

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CIH curious how your prune your grapes? Spurs or Cane pruning?

Did my first spray of mancozeb.....probably unecessary but the apples had some rust so i just sprayed everything.

Windy conditions have pushed back the tree trimming....very curious to see how that helps.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/29/2012 2:53:31 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

CIH curious how your prune your grapes? Spurs or Cane pruning?

Did my first spray of mancozeb.....probably unecessary but the apples had some rust so i just sprayed everything.

Windy conditions have pushed back the tree trimming....very curious to see how that helps.

A little of both, depending on the year. Usually very 3rd spur, but as the vines age, I take of whole stalks to try and have only one or two primary stalks that shoots will come out of. This year with the vines of the main shafts being killed off by frost, it back to, the spurs on the bottoms. It rained today so I didn't get to doing the thinning, but it will happen soon. I pinch the spurs, but use a rose pruner, when removing a whole stalk. I also pinch of the vines if they climb to high or go to wide.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/30/2012 3:45:13 AM

Pontac

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quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

I still don't know if it is Fronteac or Frontenac, the latter being a French name sounds correct, but the species was crossbred genetically at Cornell,

Frontenac assuredly, the red bred (Landot 4511 x V. riparia 89) in 1996 at Minnesota University and the Gris later developed there as a bud mutation of the red.

Apparently a white mutation - Frontenac blanc - will become available this year

Details

http://www.grapes.umn.edu/gris/index.html
http://www.grapes.umn.edu/gris/index.html

I've had a red Frontenac wine which was palatable...

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/30/2012 2:53:56 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pontac

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

I still don't know if it is Fronteac or Frontenac, the latter being a French name sounds correct, but the species was crossbred genetically at Cornell,

Frontenac assuredly, the red bred (Landot 4511 x V. riparia 89) in 1996 at Minnesota University and the Gris later developed there as a bud mutation of the red.

Apparently a white mutation - Frontenac blanc - will become available this year

Details

http://www.grapes.umn.edu/gris/index.html
http://www.grapes.umn.edu/gris/index.html

I've had a red Frontenac wine which was palatable...

I got mine from a nursery in the Finger Lakes and you pay a $.50 royalty per vine, but I thought that it was paid to Cornell. Either way, its a nice way to collect a bit after every horrible frost.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/30/2012 7:43:41 PM

khmark7

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Frontenac royalty from Double A in Fredonia NY is 0.25 for the Rouge and 0.50 for the Gris. Which reminds me that i still need to find a place to plant my Frontenac Gris....

Today was Tres Trellis day....found a supplier of round wooden posts, so i'm putting up my 3rd effort at a proper trellis alongside my house. Looks nice though.....

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/31/2012 8:32:54 AM

Pontac

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Royalty is explained in the link I posted above

Propagating these wine grapes without a license from the University of Minnesota is prohibited. This requirement applies if you want to propagate even one vine.

Propagation reporting for Frontenac Grapes is managed through cooperation with the Minnesota Nursery Research Corporation (MNRC). Fees of $0.25 per plant are collected to help fund plant breeding efforts at the University of Minnesota, and foster the development of successful new plant introductions.

License for Propagating Frontenac gris Grape Vines for Sale

If you would like to become licensed to propagate Frontenac gris grape vines for sale, then please complete a plant material variety license application:

License fee $200 USD, yearly royalty payment $.50 per vine sold or $200 minimum

Just imagine if the French charged a royalty on propagation of their vines... If Frontenac is worth 50 cents, how much Chardonnay, how much Pinot Noir???

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/31/2012 1:14:41 PM

champagneinhand

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If lineage was the factor then we would be paying the remnants of the Roman Empire, who first started separating the Pinot Noir 2 millenniums before Modern France existed. The Frontenac Gris is supposed to be comparable the Hungarian Furmint, but I'll see when these first produce fruit this year. The juice is known for its tropical fruit flavors and buttery texture as a wine. I thin it will make good late harvest wine when combined with Chardonnay. At least that was my first thought, when planting the vines, plus I would be adding the fruit from 4 vines of Pinot Gris. I was going to add some Riesling vines to the mix but instead will plant more chardonnay as the seeds from last year are sprouting in water right now. This years fruit will probably get mixed with bulk Chardonnay and aged in new oak.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/31/2012 5:15:18 PM

khmark7

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Ironic that Frontenac was first propagated in Minnesota, considering that Frontenac is a late ripening variety that would be very difficult to ripen so far north.

Tomorrow i'm going to try placing posts for a small wire trellis (only about 14 feet long) if i can blast through the tree roots in the area. If i succeed then that will be where my Frontenac Gris will live. It's along the south side of my garage by an alley and my neighbors garage......expecting the hairy eyeball from them. Hopefully there is no city ordinance prohibiting this stuff.

Will be placing a trellis at my mother's house as well.....

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 5/31/2012 7:40:36 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Ironic that Frontenac was first propagated in Minnesota, considering that Frontenac is a late ripening variety that would be very difficult to ripen so far north.

Tomorrow i'm going to try placing posts for a small wire trellis (only about 14 feet long) if i can blast through the tree roots in the area. If i succeed then that will be where my Frontenac Gris will live. It's along the south side of my garage by an alley and my neighbors garage......expecting the hairy eyeball from them. Hopefully there is no city ordinance prohibiting this stuff.

Will be placing a trellis at my mother's house as well.....

Nice

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/2/2012 4:22:22 PM

khmark7

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Plan B for the Frontenac Gris. Wooden post placement was a complete fail, mainly cause it's under two trees and the ground is 95% roots. Will plant the grape as soon as they trim the trees and then use stakes to make a half-ass trellis of sorts.

Good news...my St. Pepin has fruit clusters, but it won't matter unless they bloom at the same time as the Lacrosse, since the St. Pepin is a female only grape variety and needs cross pollination. I have it placed between my Lacrosse and Swenson Red, so in the future they will provide the cross-p, but this year with all the new plantings things might not work out so well.

Trellis placement at my mothers was successful and my new trellis alongside my house complete with wooden posts is finished. I'm beginning to look like i know what i'm doing....

Still waiting for Japanese Beetles..... All quiet on the Chicago front....

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/2/2012 4:28:48 PM

champagneinhand

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We have have been getting blasted with rain so I din't get to trim up the vines. No Jap beetles here either, which seems ominous, because it seems nature is shooting out so many spiders, ant and cottonwoods are going crazy. The grass has to be mowed every 3 days. Looking forward to this burst of nature slowing down.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/2/2012 4:38:12 PM

khmark7

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Dry here....had our first real rain back on Thursday after a 3 week dry spell. My yard is very dry still, and temps are predicted to start rising here again.

All my grapes from Double A in Fredonia NY are doing well, but the one Frontenac from Red Dog Nursery in Iowa is in bad shape....the Frontenac Gris i ordered from Double A, so i expect that to be fine.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/11/2012 2:26:39 PM

khmark7

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They're here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please welcome this years grub graduates from the Class of 2012 Japanese Beetle U.

Otherwise just very dry weather here around Chicago. Everything is moving along. Still waiting for a few new plantings with grape clusters to bloom, and now that my trees were finally pruned back there is now just enough sunlight in my yard to kill my grass, and hopefully allow some of my marginal grape sites to thrive. Dry conditions have also been very good for keeping any mildew at bay....so far just some apple scab on a few trees.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/11/2012 3:32:29 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

They're here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please welcome this years grub graduates from the Class of 2012 Japanese Beetle U.

Otherwise just very dry weather here around Chicago. Everything is moving along. Still waiting for a few new plantings with grape clusters to bloom, and now that my trees were finally pruned back there is now just enough sunlight in my yard to kill my grass, and hopefully allow some of my marginal grape sites to thrive. Dry conditions have also been very good for keeping any mildew at bay....so far just some apple scab on a few trees.

I guess I'll be manning the Anti Beetle guns, because I'm sure they will be coming out soon. I have seen a few black flower wasps patrolling the yard and they are the japanese scarabs only natural predator.

_____________________________

As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/14/2012 5:54:37 AM

khmark7

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CIH do you or anyone have any opinions on what grape varieties to suggest growing for the production of juice or for making jelly?

So far i have some Concord, a Niagara, Fredonia, Edelweiss and Bluebell. I would like to add a few more varieties. Been looking into buying 3-4 additional plants from the following list.

Beta
Alwood
America
Steuben
Valient
John Viola

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RE: Growing Your Own Grapes - 6/14/2012 9:55:57 AM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

CIH do you or anyone have any opinions on what grape varieties to suggest growing for the production of juice or for making jelly?

So far i have some Concord, a Niagara, Fredonia, Edelweiss and Bluebell. I would like to add a few more varieties. Been looking into buying 3-4 additional plants from the following list.

Beta
Alwood
America
Steuben
Valient
John Viola

I like the darker grapes for jellies or jams, but make sure that if the skins are thick and a little to bitter that you remove the skins while the product in the pan is still somewhat thin and warm. I have also had some great blanc jellies, but those are limited to Chardonnay, where the skins actually make a jam taste better as long as they are pulverized by blender. Niagra and Vidal Blanc make decent lighter flavored jellies as well.

There is a grapery, on the West part of the finger lakes that makes mediocre wines, but stellar jams and jellies. I have had many different ones there like gerwurtz and traminette that were quite good. Don't forget that a good pancake and waffle syrup can be made from the grapes as well. Concord grape pie is quite popular around here, but sometime the contain to much skin which ruins it. Yum, just thinking about September to October.

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As I age my finger tips seem to be bigger, my iOS keyboard seems to be less kind, and my need for wearing reading glasses has never been greater. I hope you are forgiving and can read between my lines.

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