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RE: Wine glasses - 2/17/2013 8:07:38 PM

mclancy10006

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I felt the pull of this thread and bought a bunch of glasses... I am going to tempt fate how ever and did buy some of the Riedel Somm Sauternes since I have I have like 25+ bottles of them.

-Mark

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Post #: 31

RE: Wine glasses - 2/17/2013 9:34:07 PM

ericindc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasonrgreen

For those of you longing for the Riedel Sommeliers.....my advice is forget it unless you have the hands of a surgeon. Was at William Sonoma today and they had 2 of the Sauternes Sommeliers on sale for $30 each. Have been wanting these for sometime. Came home and gently washed them, and sure enough one snapped as I was drying it. Believe me...I was being careful. The remaining one will now be put away and will be used on the day I open my one and only bottle of Yquem. I think I will switch to Schott Zwiesel, as I have heard that these are much more durable.

Yeah, thats one reason I am leaning towards Schott Zweisel. I know a couple wine stores in DC that use the basic glass for tastings and they tell me they rarely break.

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Post #: 32

RE: Wine glasses - 2/18/2013 5:19:03 AM

mclancy10006

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I should add the 'others' I bought were SZ for that same acceleration due to gravity meets deceleration due to hard surface problem problem I have with glasses as well!

Tried to find some Zaltos without success and will still hunt for a few more at a later date.

-Mark

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Post #: 33

RE: Wine glasses - 2/18/2013 9:28:42 AM

wadcorp

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In Florida, the biggest bane of stemware might be terrazzo.

.

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Post #: 34

RE: Wine glasses - 2/18/2013 4:23:02 PM

champagneinhand

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Tiled kitchen floors are a nightmare, Especially if you are not fully sober and washing glasses by hand. We had our sink on a Peninsula shaped counter. I have moved abruptly and flung several PN glasses into the range and its an all night clean up, looking for the razor sharp pieces of crystal. I just stick with Speigelau, for the most part. I really like them as much if not more than the Reidel. Though great price on the Sauternes glasses.

Down to 2 PN glasses do to breakage.

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RE: Wine glasses - 2/23/2013 9:24:53 PM

ericindc

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In case anyone is interested in the Zalto glasses. I went into Weygandt wines in DC today planning on buying some Schott Zweisel, but they have the Zalto glasses for $45/each, and we got an even better deal than that, so I picked up a couple Burgs. http://www.weygandtwines.com/

They don't have them on the website, but you could call them. They ship. At $45 or better (wink wink), thats the best price I can find. They had the Burgundy, Bordeaux, White, and Champagne flute.

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Post #: 36

RE: Wine glasses - 2/25/2013 4:56:27 PM

hellowine

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And the guy behind the counter said that the glasses flex. He then proceeded the give the rim a squeeze and sure enough it flexed! I was also cringing and expecting it to pop and shatter, wishing I still wore glasses.

We shall see if that little bit of give keeps them from breaking on a wooden floor or steel sink...

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Post #: 37

RE: Wine glasses - 2/25/2013 6:15:15 PM

champagneinhand

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I've got to tell you that Speigelau glasses I do wash by hand, but I shake dry as much as I can, before the clean towel. I use very little soap and hot-hot water. I have never had one where the head snaps off, even with the most violent shaking. This can not be said of many other brands. I don't use the dishwasher, even though it has the top rack option with holders. My wife and kids think it a free for all in their, and every night I have to rearrange the items. I just don't trust washing them unless they are the only things in their, but the jet-dry doesn't help the taste of wine. I figure that dishwashers are basic sanitizers and rinse most of the dishes under hot water, with a soapy nylon brush first.

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Post #: 38

RE: Wine glasses - 2/26/2013 8:39:53 PM

lvjohn

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I find the Spiegelau large bowl glasses are just fine for CDP and Burgundy rouge. Try their Burgundy Wine in the Vino Grande pattern. It's not nearly as expensive as the Riedel version.

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Post #: 39

RE: Wine glasses - 2/26/2013 9:46:35 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lvjohn

I find the Spiegelau large bowl glasses are just fine for CDP and Burgundy rouge. Try their Burgundy Wine in the Vino Grande pattern. It's not nearly as expensive as the Riedel version.

I've got the vino grand Bdx and Chardonnay, but have 2 PN from art carved left. When I get more room, I'll buy the PN Vino Grande.
I think Reidel bought Speigelau, because their glasses were better and more acceptable at their price point. Its hard to find full sets a lot of the times. They are great glasses. I don't ever worry about carting them to the Klampett in-laws, as only one has broke and it was severly mistreated. Even a solid Beer Pint would have shattered being push from a bar on to hard tile. The tile might have ended up in worse shape had that have been the case.

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Post #: 40

RE: Wine glasses - 2/27/2013 7:42:50 AM

wadcorp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand

I don't use the dishwasher, even though it has the top rack option with holders.

+1

.

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Post #: 41

RE: Wine glasses - 3/16/2013 10:53:27 AM

budh

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To broaden the subject a bit, I have purchased a few different varietal-specific glasses recently, and done all the online research I can. I'd like to share my observations and see if they resonate with people. Given the paucity of information out there, I certainly may not have all my observations correct or complete - feel free to aid in my education.... I won't do a comprehensive tome, just try to hit the highlights. I limit my comments to red wine glasses. I know some people think it is the hight of wine snobbery to have different glasses for different wines, but I think most people agree that the shape does make a difference.

There seem to be four basic variables in varietal-specific wine glasses: rim size (wide like Bordeaux, Pinot; or narrow like Syrah, Zin); bowl size (large like Bordeaux, Pinot; smaller like Zin); bulb shape (Pinot) vs. straighter sides (Bordeaux); and bowl height (tall for Bordeaux). If you focus on what these variables do to a wine, I think it enables you to do a better job choosing the optimal glass for your wine. If you think about a big Cab as a starter, the reasons a Bordeaux glass works well are: the wide rim deposits the wine in the front palate (more discussion below) which highlights the sweetness of the fruit and, thus, tames the tannin a bit; large bowl aerates the wine, also taming the tannin; straighter sides enable the aroma to dissipate a bit, not trapping potentially unpleasant alcohol fumes from heavy tannin; taller bowl keeps your nose farther away from the heavy alcohol fumes. All these variables focus on taming a Cab's tannins. With a Pinot, two of the glass variables are the same as for a Bordeaux glass, but for different reasons. A pinot bowl is large, and the rim is wide. The wide rim again focuses the wine on the front palate - but it is to tame the acidity of a Pinot, not the mild tannins. The wide bowl again leads to aeration, but this is to enhance the fruity aroma rather than smooth the tannin. Bulb shape helps enhance the aroma, and shorter bowl puts your nose closer to the wine to enjoy the aroma.

This all makes sense to me, and it is fairly easy to generalize about Cabs being tannic and Pinots being acidic. But from here it gets confusing and obscure. For instance, everyone recommends a Bordeaux glass for Merlot (it is a Bordeaux grape, after all). But most Merlots have lower tannin and acid, and are fruitier. Seems like they would be better in a Pinot glass to highlight the fruit more, or a Syrah glass (narrow rim, bulb-shape) which would push the wine to mid-palate to accentuate the lighter tannins more. I haven't tried this yet, but intend to. Likewise, most Syrahs that I drink (California) have heavy tannin and high acidity, so a Syrah glass doesn't seem appropriate due to the narrow rim. I've found a tannic Syrah tastes better from a Pinot or Bordeaux glass. Maybe a Syrah glass works well on a Grenache or Mourvedre or some less tannic Rhone blends (CNPs, etc.) - but I haven't experimented with this much yet.

A Zin glass (not many around, but Reidel makes one) also doesn't make much sense to me. They have a small bowl and narrow rim. Both of these characteristics accentuate the tannin, which in most CA Zins that I drink need to be tamed, not accentuated. People seem to think Zins are unstructured and fall apart in a big bowled glass. Maybe that is true for some, but not if you spend $15 or more for a decent Zin, in my experience... I would think a Pinot or Bordeaux glass would be better for a tannic Zin. (I need to experiment with this further.)

So my basic take-away from this is that the shape of a wine glass does matter. But don't get stuck on generalities - know what a glass does, and tailor your glass choice to a specific wine's characteristics.

One last observation: I recently got a few "breathable" Eisch "superior" glasses. They claim to aerate a wine in a couple minutes, equivalent to a couple hour decant. My early tests do support this claim. The glasses really do aerate wine quickly. This is a big help if you don't have time to decant, or when you are only drinking one glass, and don't plan ahead by pouring it an hour or so ahead of time. The downside, I have found, is that the aeration process doesn't stop. So if you don't drink what's in the glass within 30 minutes, it can seem flat after that. Not a problem if you understand this in advance. But I don't think I'd use them for any older, more expensive wines because of that.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/16/2013 11:16:11 AM

wicozani

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Last year my wife and I attended a Riedel glasses wine tasting even featuring Maximilian Riedel as the educator. The Vinum XL series served as the basis for the event, with four glasses (Riesling Grand Cru, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir and Oaked Chardonnay). The differences in the tastes of the four varietal wines were pronounced depending on what glass they were consumed from. Maximilian was very engaging, and had a range of Riedel decanters with him and exhibited varied decanting strategies. I have been using the 'shock' decanting method he demonstrated (also posted to YouTube) to very good effect with younger large-scale reds. We also tried champagne in each glass, and it was definitely the best experience from the Pinot Noir glass. Imagine the surprise, then, when Maximilian offered that he considers the Vinum XL Pinot Noir glass to be his favorite champagne glass! Jeff

< Message edited by wicozani -- 3/16/2013 11:17:01 AM >

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/16/2013 3:01:11 PM

Stirling

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For whites I had been using the standard Riedel white wine glass (12 oz) but I never really liked them. I always thought they were too small. So today I went out and purchased Royal Bohemia Nova Collection 16 oz white wine glasses. Identical shape to the Riedels, just a little bigger and a tiny bit heavier. And a fraction of the price! Happy with my purchase.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/16/2013 6:08:39 PM

annerk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: budh

To broaden the subject a bit, I have purchased a few different varietal-specific glasses recently, and done all the online research I can. I'd like to share my observations and see if they resonate with people. Given the paucity of information out there, I certainly may not have all my observations correct or complete - feel free to aid in my education.... I won't do a comprehensive tome, just try to hit the highlights. I limit my comments to red wine glasses. I know some people think it is the hight of wine snobbery to have different glasses for different wines, but I think most people agree that the shape does make a difference.<snip>

Is there a reason that you felt the need to drag up older threads and post the same thing three times? Kind of spammish, no?

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/16/2013 7:16:33 PM

budh

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So sorry. I obviously haven't figured out how the forum works yet.... I had trouble finding a topic, and was just hoping to catch the eye of anyone going down those older threads.

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Post #: 46

RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 12:42:02 AM

NathanT

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budh,

Good observations. I think the importance of the glass shape has to do with the partition kinetics of the volatile compounds in the wine in addition to the placement of the wine as it is being drunk. I'm really not sure, so I won't speculate the mechanism here. But my guess is that if you swirl the glass long enough, all glass shapes should give the same taste to the same wine.

To whomever attended the Riedel seminar, did they instruct how to swirl the glass? Or did they just distract you with the demonstration so that you won't swirl the glass too much?

I'm curious about this effect as well. There is definitely a placebo effect involved. I'm not sure if it is the majority.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 3:34:20 AM

dbg

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I believe that there are differences between different glass shapes, but not nearly as many as Riedel would have you believe. I'm not sure what the science is behind it. I suspect it is almost entirely due to the way the nose develops in the glass. Riedel's explanation of the difference being attributable to where on the tongue the glass directs the wine is pure unadulterated marketing.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 3:46:30 AM

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are you suggesting that it is a profit deal?

Maybe one day we'll see a different glass for each of the lieux-dits of Burgundy

If they thought people would pay...

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 3:50:02 AM

BornToRhone

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Wth this talk about how certain glasses place the wine on the front palate vs. the midpalate, I am also curious about how people place their glasss in the first place. I know my MIL tends to almost kiss the glass, moving her lips outwards to rim. This would tend for every glass shape to hit her front palate. Others might tend to insert the rim further in their palate.

Does Reidel provide instruction for glass insertion and tongue placementwhile tasting? (I know, kind of a weird discussion, but my assumption is that if the glass shape is playing that much difference, then the tiny details matter.). For offlines, SH and I use "The One" red version glass, designed by Master Sommelier Andrea Immer-Robinson. It holds up well but I have not done a side by side with Reidel or others...

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 4:12:57 AM

dbg

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Try pouring a little water out of the various glasses into the sink and see what you think of the placement on the tongue explanation as you observe the pour pattern. Look at the width of the stream and compare it to the width of your tongue. Then there's BTR's point about different drinking styles. Then consider that the wine spreads quickly enough to make any but the initial 1/4 second of the tongue experience moot. And as budh and many others before him have pointed out, the "taste" experience is mostly olfactory, and begins before the wine touches your tongue.

The Riedel marketing material used to be internally inconsistent, claiming that one part of the tongue emphasized certain characteristics in the description of one glass, and that the same part of the tongue de-emphasized those characteristics for another glass. They cleaned up that "error" years ago.

Also, what's so similar about Zin, Chianti and Riesling? One Vinum glass for all three? It doesn't jibe with their theory. And a missed marketing opportunity to boot!

All that said, the glasses do make a difference. I own a half-dozen different Riedel shapes plus a few from other producers, and I've compared them. Some are indistinguishable in how they affect the wine (maybe because I have the palate of a yak?), others are obviously different. My feeling is that it's all due to the effect on the nose. The tongue placement stuff is bastardized pseudoscience gussied up for marketing.

< Message edited by dbg -- 3/18/2013 4:14:48 AM >

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 8:38:24 AM

NathanT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dbg
My feeling is that it's all due to the effect on the nose. The tongue placement stuff is bastardized pseudoscience gussied up for marketing.

I agree that this is due to the effect of the nose and not the placement of the wine on the palate since most people would swirl the wine around their mouth during a tasting anyway.

What I meant regarding the statement of placement of the wine as it is being drunk is that:
how close the wine to the nose as it enters the mouth. The olfactory sense is the first taste perception.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 9:08:12 AM

dsGris

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From the old race car analogy. The trailer should not cost more than the car, the glass should not cost more that the wine. On that note a mason jar would work for me. I use a nice sized restaurant glass. I have tasted out of the super fancy glasses that were just uncomfortable for serious drinking.

From WineBeserkers: What would Bob Wood use?

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 9:19:16 AM

ob2s

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Schott Zwiesels are much sturdier, as well as Stoelzle. Stoelzle is making inroads into restaurant service. I particularly enjoy the S-Z Pure series
This is the burg glass

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/18/2013 5:33:01 PM

dbg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NathanT

What I meant regarding the statement of placement of the wine as it is being drunk is that:
how close the wine to the nose as it enters the mouth. The olfactory sense is the first taste perception.

This makes sense to me. But isn't the olfactory sense initially triggered during swirling and sniffing prior to sipping? Though to your point I think most of us continue to inhale as the wine starts to enter the mouth.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/19/2013 1:08:11 PM

ROEL

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Call me crazy, but I just had a glass of (good) cognac out of a Riedel Sommeliers Sauternes glass, and it worked for me.
Upon further reflection, the shape seemed appropriate, not that far away from a cognac "bowl".
Which just goes to confirm my personal impression (that has already been put forward here) that glass shape is first and foremost benificial to the nose of the wine.

Just my 2c

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/19/2013 2:00:55 PM

Yantre

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I use Bottega del Vino Crystal stemware

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/19/2013 3:21:21 PM

wadcorp

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I use the Reidel stemless wine glasses for single-malt scotch and cognac.

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/19/2013 6:52:22 PM

Vinsant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericindc

In case anyone is interested in the Zalto glasses. I went into Weygandt wines in DC today planning on buying some Schott Zweisel, but they have the Zalto glasses for $45/each, and we got an even better deal than that, so I picked up a couple Burgs. http://www.weygandtwines.com/

They don't have them on the website, but you could call them. They ship. At $45 or better (wink wink), thats the best price I can find. They had the Burgundy, Bordeaux, White, and Champagne flute.

Thanks! Grabbed their last Zalto Burg glass (they have more on a boat headed this way) and gave it a swirl. Loved it, will get more. Made me want to try the BDX glass too. Great customer service at Weygandt btw!

< Message edited by Vinsant -- 3/19/2013 6:53:19 PM >

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RE: Wine glasses - 3/19/2013 8:15:00 PM

budh

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I guess I will just have to devote the next year or so to serious scientific pursuit involving lots of wines and lots of glasses....a thankless task that I will try to bear up under.

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