4/15/24, 6:08 PM - I’ve had these with less than 7-9 years on them, and the majority of them have been disappointing. I find that these taste great either like a year within release, or at least 10 years after. I’ve all up but given up drinking these any sooner. I drank a 2013 TC Roussanne recently that had the aromatics of old-ish Sauternes but with a gorgeously luxurious mouthfeel with wonderfully dense apricot and pineapple notes.
3/4/24, 9:56 PM - I think it’s just a closed phase. I went on a binge with 19 Oregon Pinot/Chardonnay and was warned at Drouhin that the wines would be enjoyable for a year or two after release, but would be best after 3–5 years. We’re now there, but I still think they need some time. I had a 19 Drouhin Laurene and a 19 Ayoub Anonimo maybe about two months ago at dinner, and they were both, well, boring. Lackluster honestly, but not faulty. I just chalked that up to closed off. I’m not set to open another 19 Oregon until at least 2026-27 myself at least.
1/19/24, 11:58 AM - This wine wasn’t made with a cork? I purchased a case and they all came with screwcaps.
6/1/23, 9:46 PM - So I (possibly foolishly) picked up a six pack of this from the winery at the tasting room associates insistence that it aged rather well. I’m not familiar much with varietal Carignane, even less with Ridge’s interpretation. I was advised by said associate to wait at least 2-3 years before opening first bottle. Based on your experience, does that hold/seem true, or would you say the associate based that also on previous renditions?
4/11/23, 7:37 AM - This is the way.
9/21/22, 5:38 PM - I’ve had it a couple times and I’ve noticed the acidity has always been a bit low. I’m a tad worried about longevity for that reason, but the sugar is rather high. See it improving with additional age?
8/3/22, 5:31 PM - Hi Mark1npt,I’m rather new with VGS Chateau Potelle, only learning about them recently while up in Rutherford. This wine was quite tasty, and only now reminiscing, the last glass of this was the best for us. Good thing is we got another two to fiddle around with. I wouldn’t say it was flawed, or at least I hope it wasn’t. Nothing seemed off but then again being the first time with this wine, there’s a good chance we don’t know what we were supposed to be getting out of it. Assuming you have a scoop on these, how much longer do you think we should hold onto these? We’re big fans of classic claret and burgundies and especially admire Californian wines that can hang around food- like the Three Graces from CDV, which was especially enchanting and delightful. This was good- definitely paired well with the food. Without the food though I think it may have fared better.
6/1/22, 2:00 PM - Thanks for the update!
3/21/22, 10:23 AM - Hello TXRDW, usually we pour a small amount in a glass and toy with it for a couple minutes. If it tastes great, then we don’t decant. This one was sort of muted and didn’t really change so we decided to put in a normal decanter to see how it would change. We don’t have any crazy duck or octopus like decanters, just standard ones. Around the fifth hour is when we noticed it starting to open up. I’m still in the camp of giving this wine at least another 7-10 years. It’s good but I think the upside here is pretty great. I joked that it’ll be my grandkids that see this wine reach it’s true potential- my oldest child is 13 and youngest is a few months.
3/21/22, 12:18 PM - My two cents would be this, but I am also not a professional taster by any means so I’m just going off personal experience here:The texture probably isn’t gonna change much from now until September, I think. That’s the major upside this wine has. After that fifth hour, this wine was extremely smooth- like ridiculously smooth. In a blind tasting, unless it’s up against other 2016 first growths or PB/LLC/DB/CdE/Palmer/Montrose (and even this is a stretch), I see this easily standing out in a gleaming way and showing its finesse just in texture alone. The tannins did grow quite monstrously towards the end, but the texture itself remained great. Where I fear come September, it would be the aromatics/flavour notes. Just on the taste, I wouldn’t be scoring this wine more than an 88 if it had the texture of any average Bordeaux from 2016. The flavours/aromatics were great- good actually, but in a blind tasting I don’t see Mouton standing out based on flavours/aromatics alone. I don’t regret opening one. I think great wines have a chip on their shoulder to prove their greatness, and if we want to know what they taste like, then we shouldn’t feel guilty when we open them. If you only had one bottle then I would probably caution against it (and probably backtrack my opinion about opening) but if you have six, I think that’s plenty to at least open one for the thrill! Good luck and let us know how it goes in September!
1/31/22, 9:20 AM - I did- we actually followed it for nearly two days afterwards. Sad thing is on the second day the wine had started to turn a little funky and flat. From what I remember, the first day after about 3-4 hours were the best it was going to be. On a scale of 1-10 to measure its aroma/flavor strength at the four hour mark, this wine hit maybe a 3.8. Upon release I’d say it was closer to a 9 (back then it was intensely perfumed, with lively acidity and tons of peach/pineapple/jasmine). I myself tend to like my Rieslings a little on the older side so I think I was gonna wait another six years at least to check up on these again. My experience with this producer is they tend to be luck of the draw when they are younglings less than 10 years old. I personally would pass this one up for a Riesling dinner for now at least; Not sure how much you paid but they aren’t necessarily cheap wines. I’d hate it if my friends chimed in “ahh this wine is flavourless, bland, overly acidic, etc”. If you have any 2019 Dönnhoff, I’d say those show be showing their youth nicely now. When first released (in my experience at least) they tend to be pretty closed off but after a year or two they showcase fairly nicely. Same with Fritz-Haag and Gunderloch. Hopefully this helps somewhat!
12/18/20, 4:18 PM - Hello everyone, and thank you for your insight. Looks like my review inspired some commentary which I think is always great. To address a few things on this thread- I’m not a big Parker fan, or really any critic for that matter unless it is Jancis Robinson and even then it’s very lightly. So I don’t really watch for their drinking windows. Not to mention I’ve found that many times wines rated high by wine critics aren’t always our favorites. As far as my score, I think wines with merit can be found around 80pts, so a 74 isn’t much of a condemnation from me as much as a sub 60. But I will say that I was not really a fan of this particular wine, mainly due to the over bearing heat/alcohol. I will disagree with the notion that this region is the reason why the alcohol is so high. I’ve seen Tablas Creek make wines of purity, power and grace while staying in more moderate levels of alcohol. I will put that burden on the winery/winemaker to disprove. This wine was not flawed, I know that much, because we also ended up acquiring some of the Chloe and For Her and they all had that same heat, which is another reason why we think it’s the winemaking here and not the region. We do have one more of these so we’ll wait another 5-7 years before we open it, but so far we’re not terribly impressed by L’Aventure. We’ve had some pretty boozy Saxum wines that we’ve really liked, and enjoy Chateauneuf so I wouldn’t say it’s a stylistic thing as much as it’s obtuse, awkward alcohol in these wines. I invite any further commentary. Especially if there’s any particular food or serving recs for these wines that may improve the experience. Thank you all for the comments
1/4/22, 3:13 PM - Hey Wyatt. Thanks for your comment. I feel like your comment was directed more at my understanding of what constitutes a good wine.I see that you also have the word somm in your name so by default I’ll admit that you’re well more qualified than me to make a professional observation about the wine. Where I feel it differs is that this was *my* interpretation of the wine over the course of two to three days, not yours. As you should know, taste/opinion is relative. Respectfully, I don’t need you, nor 90% of other people telling me what I like and what I don’t (not saying they did). Nor do I need you pointing out that because I sit outside of the 90%, that I’m out of pocket or somewhere along those lines. I’m not going to sit here and defend my own criteria for judging what makes a wine good or not because it is, inherently, my own criteria, not anyone else’s. What I will say is that the folks at L’Aventure were more than gracious and friendly during my visit. To address your multiple question marked question: I simply wasn’t a fan of their wines due to what I consider the extraction/heat that comes through on them. Opus One has class and grace and freshness that I admire in most wines that I do enjoy. This wine, to my recollection of when I tried it at home was thick, murky and hot- it was far too much oaked to pair with the steak we were enjoying, and while in the review I admit that the wine had commendable jammy flavors (reason why I placed it in the 70s, not 60s), the heat was just too much. Aerating it out over the next day didn’t do much. While I do not have your professional credentials to judge a wine, CellarTracker I do think was intended for those of us who may not be professionals. For me, it’s really hard to grasp how a wine of this nature will evolve in a good way, based on what I prefer. I personally feel that the wines simply aren’t great- which I can see where my opinion affects/ed quite some people. The way I take your review, is that you seem to imply by mentioning “… who’s really in the wrong here just don’t rate it man….” that maybe I shouldn’t have bothered rating the wine. I rate most of the wines I buy/taste for my own recollection down the road if need be, and if I visit the winery again, to know what I have liked or not liked based on my tasting notes. Furthermore, you also add “ Happy to see a lot of sense in the comments.” which I take as you implying by default that mine does not in fact make sense; Yet in the first sentence of your comment you state “ Looked at your profile you clearly have your own rating system & your consistent…” which quite oppositely implies that my reviews/ratings do make sense- even to you. If one isn’t allowed to post a negative rating of a wine they truly disliked, to what extreme will it continue/end? As the saying goes: live and let live. I’m sure there are wines that you do not like at all, and maybe you don’t rate wines you dislike. I do. And if you are not content with my review or previous comment, you were more than welcome to address it without *personally* going after my own tasting abilities/deductions. There are nicer ways to communicate which I do in good faith attempt to do. But yours was a little in a bad taste. Criticize or commend the wine, not the posters ability to judge it.
12/10/21, 7:14 PM - I had this exact bottle like two weeks ago and didn’t even bother rating it. I felt that it was in the process of either already being/or going into a shutdown. It wasn’t particularly thrilling- not bad, but not impressive like it was on release. I think we’re just catching it at the wrong time? Those Panoplies really do shine with some time. The 2006 is pretty breathtaking now if you really want to get a thrill!
11/14/21, 10:21 PM - Thanks for mentioning that- I stocked up on some one these when I heard how it fared against some Burgundies but always felt that new world Pinot just doesn’t quite have the acid/structure of those Burgundies. I thought it was only me who thought this wine didn’t live up to the reputation.
9/16/21, 7:19 PM - What has JD said about the 2018s? I only read the reviews directly from Tablas Creeks website and can’t seem to see any JD reviews- maybe for that reason. I’ve always found Tablas Creek to make beautifully fresh and vibrant wines and I can imagine the flavors of that food pairing you mentioned. Will definitely have to do that myself!
5/3/21, 3:58 PM - Hi BRR. Sometimes one just has to insert some humor to cope with otherwise depressing experiences. We were all reminiscing about where and what we were doing in 2000. Then we all get the whiff of cardboard and felt 21 years of betray
5/1/21, 5:26 PM - That’s sad. Would you say it’s past its prime now? I remember this wine being luxurious and fragrant back when I purchased some back in 2017/18. Haven’t dug into any though.
2/23/21, 11:25 PM - Wow went right on in there huh? How long do you think it might need to come together? Months or years? Planning on opening one of mine maybe in early April. Fingers crossed it’s showing better then!
1/11/21, 12:41 PM - Would you say that it’s just shutting down for some time vs end of life?
12/25/20, 3:32 PM - Agree with gratefulbbq. I’m waiting another 3-4 myself before I get the next one. It was rather lovely upon release, but I do suspect its best days are some years away.
12/21/20, 10:44 AM - Hello CMantheiBelieve it or not, we haven’t really been able to fully come up with a conclusion as to whether we actually enjoyed the wine vs the experience. But you have piqued my interest: What does older Kongsgaard Chardonnay taste like or evolve into? And how long should they age? I have no qualms buying some more if they definitely improve with age!
12/17/20, 11:01 AM - Agree with more bottle age. I had this back in February at a friends and the whole 6 hours it was shy. Friend mentioned the next day he saw some improvement in what was left. I have my window as 2027-35, but then again, I do like the more mulchy, foresty truffle notes of older Bordeaux.
12/1/20, 2:09 PM - Hi SLIMESI do think Chef was spot on- especially if he thought the wine was rather open upon release. Had I read that sooner I myself would’ve opened one to see what he meant. But sadly I didn’t :( With Champagnes I’ve had, I’ve noticed that a promising start doesn’t necessarily mean there’s nothing to gain with age. Personally I enjoy older Champagnes (it definitely is rather relative to ones taste) and in this case with this RD, I will opine to wait it out and let it develop some more. I think in about 5 years this has the potential to be in the 94-95 range, easily. The acid in this wine is still lively and bright and I still tasted lots of primary lime/citrus and chalkiness- a perfect juxtaposition with the intense bread/toast/walnut notes. I personally believe that this is only going to improve over the next five years, possibly even more afterwards. Worst case scenario if I was down to one bottle, I’d still wait it out. And I know there are many that would disagree and that’s okay. I think a higher end Champagne from Bollinger can and should improve over decades. Hopefully that helps!
9/19/20, 2:25 PM - Hi jkissane Yeah, compared to Keller’s other offerings I definitely felt this one lacked any wow/hello/tasty/keller verve. I like to compare wineries top tier offering to to their more affordable options and most of the time, I end up convinced that their cheaper bottlings are a worthy investment for drinking. This was not the case. The difference between this and the G Max was indeterminate. I would say this is definitely not a good one for its’ price. I find that many $30-40 Rieslings from Maxim Grunhauser, Robert Weil, Wittmann and Thanisch blow this one out of the water. Of course that’s my humble opinion. I’d actually go as far to opine that the humble wines of Reichsgraf Von Kesselstatt perform that much better than this one Keller. In the end the G Max is a wine of beauty and one I’ll be harbouring for years to come. But I’d rather splurge on the G Max than go through a few bottles of this. Hope that helps somewhat!
8/12/20, 7:48 PM - Hi GeneralTurtleBoat. We did a blind side by side of Almaviva, Concha Y Toro Gravas Rojas, Undurraga Altazor and Santa Rita Triple C. Don’t get me wrong, the Almaviva was a solid wine- just didn’t live up to expectations I think. My personal favorite was the Gravas Rojas- it was seductive, velvety, beautifully scented and I think has the capacity to go some time. The Triple C was also a surprise with myself getting more borderline vegetal flavours but in a good way. It didn’t scream tomato plants but had just enough to give it a boost. I do think Vinedo Chadwick is great as well, but for around $250, I’d honestly look more to Bordeaux or Sonoma. I think I’m more comfortable in the $30-$70 range for Chilean Cabernet blends. Hopefully that helps!
7/16/20, 7:26 PM - Hi Jason. Thanks for the offer, will do. I can’t wait to go visit you guys hopefully this year once this virus is fully under control! We miss you guys!
5/30/20, 9:45 AM - Yeah waiting at least 2-3 more years will probably see some integration of those tannins and acid. We were pretty certain it’s probably going through the end of the “dumb phase” and should be ready to drink in a few years. I’m waiting 3 years before I pop another open. We all think it’s definitely gonna last at least another 10 more years!
4/19/20, 3:32 PM - Hello gteran76I apologize if my dislike for both Lloyd and Rombauer riled you up. I will say I’m pretty harsh on California Chardonnays so I don’t blame you.In my opinion, a good wine can be found around 80pts- myself usually pinning “daily drinkers” around the 80-84 range. A great wine might get 85-89. Terrific wines around 90-93. Then 94-96 for spectacular wines and 97+ for those glorious wines. I reserve the 60-70 range for wines I truly dislike.But yes, I am familiar with both Robert Lloyd and Rombauers other Chardonnays. And I will still say I’m not a fan. I’ve had each of those Chardonnays (and then some) and still find the Rombauer style, and Lloyd’s to be a bit much. Few are the Californian Chardonnays that I’ve found to actually like. A few that I do enjoy include Mayacamas, Montelena and Masút. Have also had many Mondavi wines so I can see your analogy. Myself personally, I adore many Burgundian/unoaked Chardonnays so that’s where our disagreement might be resolved. I’ve done multiple labels of Cakebread, Frank Family, Paul Hobbs, Patz and Hall, Pahlmeyer, Kistler, Marcassin, and Aubert and haven’t been terribly wowed per se with them either. I’m always open to try more though, hence why my journey continues. If you have any suggestions that you think I should try please let me know and I’ll give them a go! Thank you for your input and I’d love to follow you to see what you’re drinking if that’s okay with you?Best,Victor
4/11/20, 7:42 AM - Hello. Decanted just to remove sediment, then drank it over about 3-4 hours starting with shiitake and cheese stuffed eggplants. Starts off pretty flat but after 45 minutes it really started to express itself. It paired really well with the eggplant. Doesn’t have much of a tannin structure left, but well balanced for its age between acid/flavours. Wouldn’t recommend a pop and pour. Definitely give it at least 20-30 minutes.
4/1/20, 9:17 PM - Oh let me tell you, nothing is greater with a pulled pork sandwich than a nice jammy Zinfandel from say Spicy Vines or Williams Selyem heck even Ridge! But this bottle yikes. IMO, it’s way too hot, too sweet, too ripe. We couldn’t get past the first glass. We opened up a Bella a few hours ago and it’s much much better. I’ve struggled with really high alcohol/very ripe red wines and I’m trying to keep on open mind, but wines like this just demoralize. I just think it’s a god awful wine truth be told but who knows, others may love it. If they do, some pedialyte may come in handy!
4/3/20, 10:53 PM - Nice to know I’m not the only one who dislikes this wine! Since you have had some better high alcohol, richer wines, any particular ones you recommend I give a go? I can enjoy the Penfolds stuff, and I do like Chateauneuf du Pape/Southern Rhône wines a bit with food. Just haven’t found too many domestic (in the USA) that I’ve been fond of myself.
4/1/20, 9:09 AM - I wish that was the case truly. I sincerely wanted to like it. But it was up against some stiff competition that evening. Others included Ovid, Colgin, Opus One, Backus, Insignia, Bevan and the almighty Amuse Bouche. Going to and from them really made it no holds barred as far as comparing them. I will say there were only two or three out of 10 of us that placed it lower than the Phelps. But most of us did agree it was on the sweeter plush oak side. By no means anywhere near Caymus or Frank Family though! Had it been the Bettina, I’m sure it would’ve fared better than the estate did.
4/1/20, 3:58 PM - Yeah more than likely differing tastes and that’s okay. I loved the Amuse Bouche: other Napa greats I do enjoy include Heitz, Corison, Mayacamas and Chappellet. I’d love to follow your profile to see what you like to drink if that’s fine with you?
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